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TOWN OF SOUTH WINDSOR
TOWN COUNCIL SPECIAL WORK SESSION
MADDEN ROOM DATE: JULY 8, 2002
SOUTH WINDSOR TOWN HALL TIME: 7:00 P.M.
1. Call Meeting to Order
Mayor Aman called the meeting to order at 7:10 p.m.
2. Roll Call
Members Present: Mayor William Aman
Deputy Mayor Matthew Streeter
Councillor Barbara Barbour
Councillor Paul Burnham
Councillor Thomas Delnicki
Councillor Deborah Fine
Councillor Lassman Fisher
Councillor Edward Havens
Councillor John Pelkey
Also Present: Town Manager Matthew B. Galligan
Town Attorney Barry Guliano (Present for part of the
Meeting, and in the audience)
3. Public Participation
First to speak was Craig Zimmerman, Chairman of the Park and Recreation Commission, who stated that, although he knew everyone was present this evening to, primarily, talk about the I-291 Corridor site for recreation, asked that the Council not lose focus on the entire Master Plan particularly Phase I. He feared that I-291 Corridor, and the Lawrence Road property, would be the only parcels discussed.
He asked if the Town Council had cost data for Phase I. Mr. Galligan replied that it had it for I-291. He then distributed his own work-up of cost figures for other segments of the Plan.
4. Communications - None
5. Town Manager's Report - None
6. Items for Discussion
A. Proposed Recreational Facilities to be Considered for Possible Referendum Question in November
Mayor Aman then asked the Councillors to retrieve their copy of the Revised Park Recreation Master Plan provided to them at the July 1, 2002 Regular Town Council meeting. (A copy is attached as Exhibit A.) He said he would like to discuss some of them fairly quickly as to what Council wished to do on them, and then go on to the Lawrence Road parcel and the I-291 parcel.
B. Lawrence Road Property, I-291 Property, Barton Property, Nevers Road Park Property, and the Priest Property
Looking at the sketch of the revised plan, Mayor Aman said that he would like to skip over the Route 291 column and go on to the Ayers Road column, saying that his own feeling was that the parking problem could be alleviated by the application of LoCIP funds to the sidewalks being proposed in that area. If this proposal works, he added, he would also like to pave the Little League lot either with the LoCIP, or other, funds but fairly quickly.
Also, he added, in the area where currently the football and lacrosse teams practice, put in one 90-foot baseball diamond. That, he said, would be his main change to the Ayers Road location; and would go in after the I-291 football and lacrosse fields were built.
Saying he was not familiar where, currently, the football and lacrosse fields were located. Mayor Aman explained; and a discussion continued on this location. When the discussion suggested that two (2) 90-foot baseball diamonds could be located at this complex, Director of Recreation Ray Favreau said that you would not have room for two of them in that same corner.
When Councillor Pelkey asked again exactly what this field was used as, Mr. Favreau said it was predominately used as a
The discussion continued regarding the feasibility of relocating different fields at different locations on the Ayers Road/Little League property.
Councillor Pelkey said, if nothing else, it was important to get the parking lot paved at Ayers Road would have.
Deputy Mayor Streeter asked the Town Manager for clarification on exactly where the proposed sidewalks will be located on Ayers Road he asked if they would be on the side of the street where the High School is or on the opposite side. Mr. Galligan responded that staff was still looking at this with the idea of trying to keep it on Town property as much as possible.
Continuing, Mr. Galligan said there are definitely going to be sidewalks proposed on the Little League side of the field which would stop people from parking up in that area; and if the Town did provide parking for the High School students, he added, they could walk along the sidewalk up to just across from the High School. One, two or three homes would be affected with this plan, he said..
Following this, according to Mr. Galligan, you could pick up on the other side, going along Wapping School again, he added, this would bypass and not disturb the residents going up to Sunset Terrace and that area.
The other area looked at, according to the Town Manager, was Nevers Road where the sidewalks already run from the corner of Sand Hill Road to the Community Center. These sidewalks, he said, could be continued either on the Community Center side, or across the street on the High School (Town property) side. Deputy Mayor Streeter felt it made more sense to continue the sidewalks on the Community Center side. Mr. Galligan agreed this was possible, but pointed out there were three homeowners plus those residing at Windemere Court in that area and would be affected by the sidewalks.
Councillor Lassman Fisher asked what the column Keep meant keep what, she asked. Mayor Aman (referring to the Ayers Road location) replied that it was his understanding that the latest revision would not have us touching the softball field that is currently there. It included the concept of removing the softball diamond and replacing it with a parking lot in order to relieve some of the parking problems with bringing up the sidewalks; and relieve some of the Nevers Road neighbors problems by not moving the softball diamond, at this time. Although, he added, he would be willing to discuss this further in the near future using Capital Projects or LoCIP funds, if necessary. For Referendum purposes, he added, he would like to see that field left alone.
Councillor Lassman Fisher asked if the parking problem would be fixed by the installation of sidewalks. The Mayor replied that it was his hope that this, together with the paving of the existing parking lot, helped solve the problem. Councillor Lassman Fisher asked Craig Zimmerman what he thought of this theory and, in particular, the paving of the parking lot. Mr. Zimmerman replied that he really appreciated the paving of the parking lot
Councillor Pelkey, referring to the spacing of games currently at the Ayers Road Complex, pointed out that there is an overlapping of game times and, consequently, parking when one game is not over before another is scheduled to begin and cars are arriving for the second game. He felt that the relocation of a field to another location could alleviate this problem to a great degree.
Councillor Lassman Fisher felt that lining the parking lot reduced the number of available parking spots. She asked for further explanation as to where those cars are going to park was it Council's plan to put them away and make people walk on the sidewalks. Mayor Aman said -Yes. Once those two parking lots are full--. At the High School and at Wapping School.
Mr. Galligan echoed Councillor Pelkey's comments regarding the need for baseball fields in another location in order to alleviate overlapping of games and, consequently, congestion in the parking lots. Keeping in mind that some people come early to games and some people stay long after the game is over the overlapping of parking needs could be greatly reduced with the advent of two more baseball fields in another location--namely, the I-291 Corridor parcel.
Councillor Lassman Fisher asked the Town Manager if the sidewalk being proposed goes through the High School. Mr. Galligan explained that the proposal was to bring the sidewalk along the whole of Ayers Road from Nevers Road on the side of the Larry Duprey Complex to the point across the street from the High School entranceway. There, he said, it would cross Ayers Road, proceed past the entrance to the High School, connecting up with those sidewalks, and on up to Wapping School. Two crosswalks are also being designed by staff. he added; with the objective of connecting and utilizing those existing parking lots seldom used but within short walking distance of the athletic fields on Ayers Road.
Councillor Lassman Fisher stated that people are parking at Wapping School. And up and down the road, kids are darting in and out between the traffic; etc. Her suggestion, in order to make this work, was that people need to be able to come from the High School and walk across the street and there's no sidewalks from the street to the parking lot. She felt that the issue of traffic needed to be thought about that, currently, it is a nightmare that needs to be fixed and this should be the last fix for a long time.
The Councillor then suggested that the Town get a cost analysis of what's going to happen if the people park at the High School and walk from its parking lot to the walkway; and, can this be added to the plan. Councillor Lassman Fisher was of the opinion that Wapping School parking lot fills up immediately and does not solve the parking problem. However, she contended, the High School parking lot could solve the problem.
The Councillor's final questions was Who has control over the High School parking lot…..does the Council have the authority to appropriate the use of this parking lot for the purposes mentioned. Both the Mayor and the Town Manager stated that they certainly would not use the parking lot without the Board of Education's permission. The Councillor then asked if the Board was aware of the these sidewalk and parking lot plans; but Mr. Galligan replied that he felt the Town Council had to decide first if this was a viable solution to the problems; and, if they concurred, then he would approach the Board with this request.
Asking for clarification, Councillor Barbour stated that, by paying these parking lots, we may acquire (how many) additional parking spaces. Mayor Aman answered that the problem was not being solved, only adding about a dozen spaces more cleaning it up in an aesthetic improvement than a real parking improvement. It does, however, help with the High School parking problem.
Mr. Galligan suggested that whether the Referendum is passed or not, the Town should still use LoCIP money for the sidewalks.
It was Councillor Fine's opinion that paving and lining has got to be an improvement to the parking area. Mayor Aman summed it up by stating that it's a token expansion, and it was not an end to the problem but more a matter of cleaning it up.
Councillor Lassman Fisher, referring to the sidewalk being planned to the High School, felt that the Board of Education or the officials of the High School should be able to apply to the State for reimbursement money. She pointed out that this sidewalk was for High School athletes the softball team; the field hockey team, and the baseball team all play over there She stated that this was an avenue that really needed to be explored.
The Town Manager said he would check into this.
In conclusion, Councillor Lassman Fisher said she felt strongly that if this was the solution to pave the sidewalks and the parking lots then somewhere included in the Plan, for at least a year, there needed to be someone on that site (a staff person, overtime Police, whomever) from, say, 5:00 p.m. to 8:00 p.m., daily, instructing the public, when necessary that…."You can't park there" or, "You need to use the sidewalk where it exists;" etc. She noted that signs long present at the Little League fields instructing people. Do not stand in front of fence; Do not park (wherever) are largely ignored.
Going on to the Barton Property, Mayor Aman said that the Campground and the Trails which are there should be left to one of the Boy Scout's projects, or something similar. He did not want to go in and have to establish and pave a parking lot as would need to be done if it was strictly a Town facility. Other than that, the Mayor said he would like to tie in the walking trails from the Rye Street Park to the Barton property but felt this was not possible because of the ravine and the presence of the railroad tracks on these properties.
He summarized his feelings regarding this property by saying that, in view of this, he would suggest that the Barton property be left alone until sometime in the future. Councillor Fine pointed out that playgrounds were listed as an ADD on to the Barton property. Mayor Aman said that because nothing else was to be located there at the present time, he would not advocate locating a playground on this parcel at this time. He said, however, he would entertain the thought of placing this playground at one of the other properties i.e. at one of the other parks, or at the I-291 Corridor site.
Deputy Mayor Streeter, with regard to the Barton Property, agreed with the Mayor regarding the postponement of significant changes to this parcel until a later date.
Councillor Fine asked if she was correct in assuming that the message with regard to the Barton property is to scrap anything scheduled for there in the immediate future. Mayor Aman and Deputy Mayor Streeter said Yes. However, if the Boy Scouts, for instance, wished to put in a nature trail, or expand the trails that are already there, they felt this was fine. Mayor Aman said he did not wish the Town to spend money on formal trails because, as soon as it did, it would also have to supply the other things that go with that namely, a parking area.
Councillor Pelkey, in an attempt to summarize the discussion to this point, suggested that what it came down to was how the Councillors felt about the I-291 property versus the Barton property.
Councillor Lassman Fisher took issue with what she felt was being discussed was the Mayor's Plan; but was their's and asked why the Council didn't hear what they have to say. Mayor Aman replied because now it was something the Town Council had to decide. He pointed out that Council has had three or four meetings regarding this; and now it is up to the Council, with input from the Park and Recreation Commission, the Recreation Department, and the public to decide what the Council thinks should be done.
After further remarks by other Councillors, Mayor Aman said that he needed to know what the Town Council was thinking, so that the Architect knows what the people who are voting are thinking.
Councillor Fine asked why, at this time, the parties involved cannot tell us what the Plan is, and then we can comment on it. Mayor Aman interrupted and said that he wanted to know what the Councillors think of all of the Plans now. She, too, alluded to the feeling that the Plan being discussed was Bill's plan; and again suggested Council be informed of what the Plan is. Mayor Aman reminded her that the Council has already listened to three months of input from the Recreation Department, the Parks and Recreation Commission, the public, and Vollmer Associates, and it was time to hear Council's opinion.
Mayor Aman suggested that if the general feeling was that it was his plan, he would ask someone else on the Council to start the discussion on the next site. Councillor Havens spoke up and told the Mayor that he was doing fine.
He then asked, point blank, what do you want to do with the Barton property. Councillor Havens responded Forget it. Let it lay there. Mayor Aman then asked Councillor Fine what she wished to do with the Barton property. She replied that the Barton property would be:"very nice with a campground and trails on it if the Scouts were interested in doing it. However, she did ask for a definition of an Open Field.
Councillor Havens felt that the bottom line figure was the important thing when going to Referendum; and the Barton property was not a priority thing in his opinion. What people have been asking for, for years, according to Councillor Havens are soccer fields and baseball fields. And these, he added, are a priority.
Councillor Delnicki agreed; and felt that leaving the Barton property, for a time, to use and improvements by the Girl and Boy Scouts would probably be the prudent thing to do. He said he was looking at a bottom line figure of $7,400,000; and, although there are many great things included in the Plan, there would be sticker shock for those looking at it especially when last year's Referendum failed at around $4 million. He, too, felt that the over-$7 million figure had to be lowered by going with the priority issues first.
Councillor Lassman Fisher felt that the Council had to listen to what the people have said to the Council; and, over 50% of them said we want more passive recreation we want trails
The Councillor felt that the Master Plan offered the Town a system of Parks; and the Town Council really needed to keep this in mind. That's why, she stressed, this needs to be a Plan for everyone. She felt that the Council could kill the Plan by making it appear that it was only satisfying a group of special interest people.
She felt this was her primary concern at this meeting that Council would leave the impression that we're going to put this Mecca up on I-291, and forget about what was requested other than playing fields. She pointed out that a campground was a big issue for the Boy Scouts; many respondents to the Questionnaire wanted more walking trails.
Again, she was concerned about a resultant special interest vote, and she said it was important that the voters know that if the proposal went to a Referendum, there would be something for everyone contained within that which was being proposed for voter approval.
Mayor Aman, referring to the walking trails, said he would rather spend that project's money on the Priest property because he felt if nature trails were to be established at that site, they could eventually be tied into nature trails on the Waldron property the combination of which could result in a nature trail several miles long. It was also the Mayor's feeling that walking or nature trails on the Priest/Waldron property would be used much more than any located on the Barton property simply because of their location within the center of Town.
Gary Sorge, of Vollmer Associates, interrupted at this point to inform the Council that the figure for walking trails on the Priest property being shown on tonight's material was much too high that the figure of $650,000 for trails at this location had been immensely distorted. It would not be nearly that much, he added, more in the neighborhood of $200,000-$250,000 (and it would depend, he said, on the amount of boardwalk required because of wetlands that had to be crossed).
Mayor Aman asked Mr. Sorge to describe the difference between a walking trail and a nature trail such as the one at the Wildlife Sanctuary. Because of the terrain at the Priest property, Mayor Aman said he was looking at a nature trail; and he asked Mr. Sorge which type of trails he was looking at for $200-$250. Mr. Sorge said probably an 8-foot paved path. A nature trail could go down, he said, to 3, 4, or 5-feet wide with a soft surface, and with some areas that are suspended above a brook or a wetland area.
Deputy Mayor Streeter said he would be opposed to any 8-foot paved trails anywhere in Town. He visualized them, he said, more like the Wildlife Sanctuary's nature trails, or Nevers Road Park walking trails. He underestimated the width, however, of the walking trails at Nevers Road Park. Director of Recreation Ray Favreau told the Deputy Mayor that, at that location, the trails were 8 to 10 feet wide; and it had to be to allow utility vehicles to use the surface.
Mr. Galligan interjected that he did not think paving would be considered that it would be more like stone dust as was used on the walking trails at Nevers Road Park.
Gary Sorge said that the paths at Nevers Road were soft surface paths. Mayor Aman voiced his opinion that he would prefer soft surface paths on all of them.
Mr. Sorge then said he wished to provide Council with some insight into the original plan, which was a Plan that had proposed paths and trails throughout the Town, and the Priest property was a link in that stretch taking advantage of the
He said he was personally in favor of having some passive trail at the Barton property; and added that the Priest property certainly starts to fit into the overall town Greenway mold that Vollmer had tried to develop in the Plan for development for years into the future.
Councillor Lassman Fisher stated that, if anyone spent any amount of time at the Nevers Road Park, they would soon realize it is a very active place and there are a lot of people, including a large number of our senior population, in the woods using the trails which, she felt, pointed up the need for walking trails that are wide enough to accommodate emergency vehicles if they are needed.
Deputy Mayor Streeter said that, if this is the case, he definitely did not want trails or parking lots at the Barton property at this time until Council decided exactly what it wished to do with this property later on
With regard to the Priest Property, Town Manager Galligan said he agreed with Gary Sorge that the Priest property is important for trails from the standpoint that if CL&P is talking about allowing the Town access along its powerlines, it could eventually link-up with the I-291 Corridor site and to Nevers Park and it could be one massive trail through the center of Town.
Councillor Lassman Fisher added that there is no place for kids or adults to bike, and this too should be considered when, and if, trails are constructed particularly as each parcel links to another. Currently in Town, there is no safe place to bike, she added; and this would be ideal.
Councillor Fine asked if a trail was to be used for biking and walking whether separate trails were required, for safety's sake. Typically, according to Gary Sorge, the trails would allow for either two bikes passing each other, or a walker and a bike passing each other. He added that a 10-foot trail would be sufficient. Mayor Aman asked if the stone dust would accommodate biking; and he was assured that it would, and that even now bikers were using the Nevers Road walking trails.
Roy Normen, a resident and former Councillor, said that perhaps it was possible; however, the rules stated quite clearly that no bikes were allowed on Nevers Road walkways. Ray Favreau, Director of Recreation, however, corrected Mr. Normen by stating that the Ordinance governing this sort of thing was revised about three years ago to include bikes.
Trying to focus in on specifics, Mayor Aman returned to the discussion regarding the Priest property and said that, as he understood it, what was being sought for this location is a path similar to the one at Nevers Road Park. It was generally agreed that this was the case at least until cost estimates were received. When asked if this would include a parking lot, the answer was Yes and most likely off of Pierce Road, rather than off of Sullivan Avenue. And the Council's most popular width of the path seemed to be a 10-foot wide path.
A discussion ensued regarding a difference of opinion regarding the best location for the parking lot. And, in spite of a general feeling that the facility would be more visible from Sullivan Avenue, constructing a parking lot with access and egress onto a State highway would require extensive and expensive extra work.
Councillor Havens asked the Town Manager if the South Windsor Rotary Club had mentioned to him their intention to construct a Band Shell near the Pavilion at Nevers Road Park. Saying that he wasn't certain the plans for the Band Shell were definite, Mr. Havens suggested that perhaps consideration for its location just in case should be examined; and, perhaps, this is where a playground should also be located.
Councillor Fine expressed her concern that Council was treating the Master Plan in the same manner as it had treated the renovation plans for VMP too much rehashing of revisions, too often.
Deputy Mayor Streeter pointed out that the I-291 Corridor site is something that just came up at the last minute; and, although he felt time was of the essence when it came to the Park and Recreation Commission getting this out to the public, this new proposal site had to be given fair consideration, as did each other site, individually.
Town Manager Galligan said that originally the I-291 Corridor site was not in the picture because of the Snow Valley proposal. However, now it is a viable location, he said; and were the Council to look at the proposals in the original Master Plan, doing some of the things being discussed this evening, and doing Lawrence Road, the Town Council would meet the overall objectives and guidelines of what the Master Plan was supposed to be doing.
The purpose of the discussions this evening, according to the Town Manager, was to try to meet the guidelines of the Master Plan by using a different piece of property in order to meet them.
Gary Sorge took a few minutes to point out that the advent of the I-291 Corridor property as a viable location for playing fields takes the pressure off the multi-use field at Ayers Road and also the strain off the Lawrence Road property.
Referring to Ellsworth School, Councillor Pelkey stressed his feelings that the Town absolutely needed more indoor basketball courts. And this is the only no brainer in this entire proposal. Mr. Favreau was asked what this renovation included, and he replied taking the old restrooms, and making them into real restrooms with showers, etc. Mayor Aman said his only concern was input from the Board of Education whether it be done via the Referendum, or through some other method of funding.
Mayor Aman asked the architect to get the Council actual cost figures for this renovation exactly what the renovation would be; and he asked the Town Manager to investigate to see if there were any other funding sources for this work.
Councillor Burnham asked if the Town Manager or the Board of Education would be eligible for any type of Grants for this renovation (particularly the roof or the windows, in light of the fact that this project is directly related to a school building.
Town Manager Galligan then referred to a large map on the I-291 Corridor property which he presented displaying where certain fields could be located, and the cost estimates associated with those fields. He said that it was estimated that, in this location, every acre is worth approximately $70/acre thus, he added, this particular piece of property could represent between $1.4 to $1.7 Million. (Using this map, Mr. Galligan pointed out the sizes and locations of the fields being proposed; and the fact that they were, at this point, all lit.)
As shown, the complex would include two soccer fields, one each lacrosse and football fields, two Little League fields, and either another soccer field or a 90-foot baseball field. No permanent structure, he added, could be built under the powerlines. Parking area would accommodate between 160-170 cars.
A lengthy discussion continued regarding parking considerations.
Councillor Lassman Fisher, referring to the current numbers of participation in individual sports and, in particular, the large increased interest in lacrosse asked if these plans would be addressing the current and future needs. She asked Mr. Sorge what the trends in athletic sports might be in the future, and whether one type of field could be converted to another type of field should trends change.
Mr. Sorge began by saying, If you're asking if I think this complex will be busy, I would say absolutely! The only limiting factor at this point, according to Mr. Sorge, is space limited by an easement and the northern property line. In a nutshell, he said, he thought the fields should be allowed to be flexible so that there is enough space; that there is a wide enough area that is graded for all type field uses; and that you have the safety zones for the widest fields; etc.
Although, as he put it, these fields do not have the ideal orientation, they are sufficient. He said there is not much you can do with that sliver above the easement. Soccer, he added, is a low profile game; it is not as impacted by the sun, as are Little League baseball and football games.
Mr. Galligan explained that the idea was that, if the two fields were not being used for football, they could be used for lacrosse. Councillor Lassman Fisher said that she would want flexibility for those fields and asked if that is how it is now or if that was what would be done. She also asked who owns the easement and if it was possible to acquire it. Mr. Galligan responded saying that the Town owns the land underneath but there are overhead wires physically located there. When asked whether fields could be placed beneath the wires, Mr. Sorge and Mr. Galligan said that they would not recommend it.
Mr. Sorge explained that, working with a program, they tried to make the best use of the property.
Regarding the lower fields, Mr. Sorge said that the soccer fields would not be regulation-size fields but certainly sufficient for youth play. He said the lower two fields could be used for lacrosse. Noting the possibility of future changes in the world with regard to children's athletics, Councillor Lassman Fisher expressed that it be designed with flexibility for the future. She asked if there was anything else that Mr. Sorge anticipated might change in the future, and he expressed concern about having a survey done of the property so that he can tell the Council without hesitation that there is room to put those specific fields, since he could not be absolutely certain without such a survey. He said that a 360-foot by 225-foot field (soccer) would be the longest and widest field, and all
others would fit in. Mayor Aman said that the Council's desire was for the fields to be of universal use, so that Mr. Sorge's charge would be to make them as large as the site allows.
Councillor Lassman Fisher questioned an area for girls softball, and Mr. Zimmerman said that there wasn't anything in the first five or six years of the Master Plan that addressed softball, other than the fact that softball could be played on the two Little League fields. He said they are interchangeable; a girls softball field is the same size as a Little League field. There is currently no dedicated girls softball field in South Windsor.
Councillor Barbour asked whether population figures have been projected out for the next ten or twenty years to determine whether all the fields and parks will meet the needs of the population. Mr. Sorge said that it is very difficult to apply planning figures like that. He said that two and a half years ago they used formulas to project numbers, and it doesn't work. The Councillor then asked, Do we have enough fields. Mr. Galligan interjected, stating that in looking at the Master Plan, some of the additional fields are looking to be built at the grammar schools, but are holding back. When the Board of Education comes out with a plan for those schools, the Council would want to have fields incorporated as part of the plan, since there would be a 44% reimbursement rate, as part of a
school project.
Mr. Sorge stated that he believes that this plan will more than fulfil the needs of the Town. He couldn't say with certainty whether that would be ten years or fifteen years. He said there is a demand for passive recreation and there is an insert in the plan which was never part of the scope, and that was the greenway concept with trails interconnecting the parks for the Town.
There was a question with regard to the difference in the costs assigned to the parking lot at Nevers Road and the I-291 Corridor for the same amount of cars. Mr. Sorge responded that the parking at I-291 is broken into a number of figures; lighting is separate; drainage is separate, etc. The figure for Nevers has everything combined.
When asked what the building in the southeast corner of the map was, Mr. Galligan said that a regional dog pound program has been examined for quite some time. The Humane Society would like to get something in this area, and the Town is attempting to work something out with them. That building is for that program. Although he felt it was a great idea, Councillor Delnicki questioned putting it in that area, especially in light of the parking issues. Mr. Galligan stated that there is another piece of property; when Route 30 is completed, the state will have three to four acres left over on the other side. It was decided that additional parking was preferred, rather than a dog pound.
Councillor Delnicki, referring to the $650,000 estimate for the total package of the illumination of the fields, questioned if that was all the fields. Mr. Galligan responded that it was for all the fields, although it was not their intention to light every field. The Councillor felt that the underground infra-structure should be put in place at this time.
Mr. Sorge then briefly discussed storm drainage and sanitary disposal. Mayor Aman asked that when preparing the pricing, Mr. Sorge price out with a high extimate and a low estimate
Discussion turned once again to lighting at the fields, especially with the high tension lines.
It was the Council's request that a playground be placed in the vicinity of the rest-rooms and concession stands near the larger fields.
Deputy Mayor Streeter questioned the 20% figure from Contingency. Mr. Sorge said that they had used 15% in the past, but because of potential construction cost overruns, 20% was used.
Regarding a survey, Mr. Sorge said that the only type of survey that could be provided in this timeframe would be a boundary survey. He emphasized the need for them to know where the property lines are and said that they would have to go through existing records. Councillor Lassman Fisher once again emphasized the need for flexibility of the fields.
Councillor Barbour reviewing numbers said that without I-291, she had a figure of $3,085,000; with I-291 and the playground it came to total figure of $6.7 million (with all the lighting). There was discussion as to whether this type of figure would pass a Referendum. Mayor Aman said they would have to go forward in a manner similar to the budget process; and, after cost figures are presented, go through and eliminate items.
Mayor Aman suggested that items be flagged that could be removed as stand-alones, inotherwords, those items which could be removed without impacting many other items down the road. Mr. Galligan said that consideration to certain items, such as the fact that Lawrence Road calls for a Pavilion for $250,000; perhaps something like a gazebo should be considered instead.
Mr. Zimmerman said that in looking to cut back, there are a few things the Council should know. The Park & Recreation Commission has already done that, and he said he would provide a list of the items cut. He said he hoped that things like irrigation and the size of the fields would not be cut back. He felt that the Nevers field and Rotary field would be two good fields to compare.
Discussion then switched over to the Lawrence Road area. Councillor Havens suggested taking out the picnic area and pavilion for the $250,000. He said that they are not looking for a great deal of activity in that area. Mayor Aman said he would like to keep a picnic area and perhaps a structure like the Town Manager had suggested.
Mayor Aman said he would like to have all of the area at Lawrence Road, elevation-wise, which is suitable for playing fields turned into a grassy area. He didn't recommend leaving anything other than the buffer zones as wooded areas. Deputy Mayor Streeter asked if would be possible to reduce the number of the Referendum by doing some of the clear-cutting and removing of the shrubs. Mayor Aman said that in looking at the numbers, certain items may be able to be done from LoCIP funds, etc.
Deputy Mayor Streeter stated that, if for some reason the footprints don't allow full-size soccer fields at the I-291 site, then thought should be given to having the two mid-size fields go with the one regulation-size field, and the open field as well as the top field in case one of the fields that have been marked at the three larger fields won't fit, then there is the viable option of Lawrence Road.
Mayor Aman's feeling was that when the layout is prepared, if a full-size field can't be placed there, then whatever needs to be done to come up with two mid-size fields and two full-size fields even if mixed and matched should be done.
Regarding Lawrence Road, Councillor Pelkey said that the public seemed to address problems with drainage, water tables, etc. Mayor Aman said that there is an entire section of the Lawrence Road area which includes wetlands and is not even to be affected. He said that there was some confusion on the part of the public with regard to the area.
Mr. Galligan, said that he worked with the people regarding the area of Lawrence Road and that Fred Shaw had given them a proposal to run sewers all the way down. They wanted the developer down on Dart Hill to put the sewer in, and the WPCA said that would be about 500 feet of sewer to service seven or eight houses. The developer moved it to a certain point and told the Town it could then hook in. The cost was to be $143,000, and, Mr. Galligan explained, it was proposed to the WPCA that it could be done and the individuals then could be assessed. When it came down to the fact that each property owner would be assessed, they didn't want it.
In response to questions about the baseball field, Mr. Zimmerman said that several options were explored, but the reason two Little League fields at I-291 would work is because the Little League has two separate leagues.
Discussion ensued with regard to soccer fields at Lawrence Road, and Mayor Aman said he would like two there, whether they be mid-size or full-size. His only reason for leaning against a full-size field, he said, was that people will interpret that to mean that lights, speaker systems, etc., will follow.
It was determined that two basketball courts should go at the Lawrence Road location. There was some discussion regarding full-size courts or half-size courts. A playground was then requested.
Mr. Sorge, noting that the wishes of the Council for Lawrence Road seemed to be two full-size basketball courts, a playground, and two mid-size soccer fields, questioned future expansion and was told a universal playing area is what we are talking about.
The subject of a pavilion arose once again, and there wasn't support at this time for a pavilion. The idea of a gazebo and a small dock seemed to be favored. As far as a walking trail, there was agreement for a path around the park.
Next addressed was the Nevers Road Park area. Deputy Mayor Streeter, referring to the parking lot to the right of the Community Center, spoke of the feasibility of having a path to the far field on the right. Mayor Aman noted the importance of keeping the parking area there at the Community Center, since that parking serves baseball during the baseball season, the Community Center all the time, and the High School regularly.
Most of the Council was in favor of the skateboard park, the location of which would be near the Recreation Department, so that it could be administered correctly and be visible.
When asked about the presentation of a Referendum, Mr. Zimmerman said that a Referendum that doesn't include enough things for enough groups, both active and passive, will fail. Although a number was not available at this time, he said that we need to do a better job this time of explaining what that upper number really means financially to people. It was his belief that the reason people might vote no this time is if it is scaled back too small so that the positive people don't come out, or if it is made so expensive that that becomes the major issue.
Director of Recreation Ray Favreau emphasized the highest vote-getter in the needs assessment
Deputy Mayor Streeter suggested, as part of Phase II, the utilization of the Major Donnelly Preserve for trails.
Regarding passage of a Referendum, Mr. Galligan stated that communication was the key issue with the last one. He noted that more people will be turning out to vote, since this is a major election, so the lines of communication need to be wide open.
Mayor Aman asked if there were any members of the public present who wished to speak, and there were none.
Continuing the discussion of presenting information relating to the Referendum to the public, Mr. Sorge questioned the necessity of mapping things out with specifics, versus a more generalized text description of items at the various locations. Mayor Aman, stating that he was expressing his own opinion, felt that the actual specifics would be important for the I-291 Corridor and for Lawrence Road; but, for the other parks, it would be extremely difficult to map out the specifics. Mr. Zimmerman stressed the importance of the public being aware of the specifics; since, if they don
It was agreed that another meeting would be scheduled for the first part of August.
C. Capital Projects that Could Interrelate with Recreational Facilities Being Considered for Possible Referendum Question, i.e., Sidewalks, Parking Logs, Road Improvements, Sewer and Water Installations or Extensions
This item was not covered.
Executive Session - None
Adjournment
A motion to adjourn was made, was duly seconded, and was unanimously approved.
Respectfully submitted,
Patricia R. Brown Merlyn P. Guild
Clerk of the Council Asst. to the Clerk of the Council
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